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11:52 PM
Did some quick checks on the net for Arvind Lavakare and found the only mentions were through his online articles (15+ at Rediff).
Surprising how the person who posted this on our intranet was so gullible. Do ppl really believe anything they read... don't they have their own opinion or is it only if you're one of those who have a vacuum in your belfry?
Thankfully I was proven wrong about the majority... here's the responses to that post. It was removed after my post at the end made it evident that this article was not suitable to be on the boards...
Posted: 12/4/2008 10:56 AM by SHK
some startling and humiliating facts here ...
one more reason to introspect and ACT !!!
Posted: 12/4/2008 1:37 PM by KS
Strange how this article focused solely on Islamic terror while forgetting to list the other terror groups across our country like the Maoists and the Naxals and the tacit support to the LTTE down south. Or the fact that none of the ringleaders of the Mumbai and Gujarat riots were ever convicted. We are indeed confused about what is a terrorist act and what isn't.
But we can't blame Pakistan or any other external agency for any of the above, so who cares, right?
And yes, POTA worked well with the Parliament attacks. Three people were convicted and sentenced to death in the POTA trial. Two of those convictions were overturned by a higher court. But then, since 'guilt beyond reasonable doubt' isn't really a concern, who cares?
Besides why waste time on due process when you can always resolve things with an encounter or two?
I agree that there needs to be a significant improvement in the numbers and infrastructure available to our law enforcement agencies. Perhaps, with the establishment of this proposed federal agency, we may see things change.
Posted: 12/4/2008 2:32 PM by AP
Well, there are a lot of self styled experts putting forward their views these days. And especially, during such troubled times, there are more takers for Gandhi bashing. After all, we have always got the habit of holding someone else responsible for our problems.
I'm not an expert and don't not have any solution to propose....may be we need to fight against terrorists in their territory, or may be we need to go for a decisive war against Pakistan...if so, then do it after evaluating all options! But why dragging Gandhi....and always!
Remember, whoever lashes out heavily against Gandhi, that he had got the b***s to go and confront the enemy right in front of him...looking straight into his eyes!
Posted: 12/4/2008 3:14 PM by SNSI
This article is preposterous. With all due respect, this Arvind guy has made a cocktail of facts, literally, and what do you get in the end, a recipe which is sweet, bitter, sour and peppery – a classic Ugadi Pachchadi.
I mean, mix Terrorism, Religion, Politics, Hatred based on Community or Society, sprinkle a li’ll bit of Reservations, flame it by accusing some distinguished persons.. really stupid and non-sense names( for the want of better term).. and what you have? An Instant pot-boiler – cooler than all those ‘Kk’ serials and Ramu’s movies cumulated together.. Well, No arguing there.. You must accept I am correct.
What prompted me write this post is the ‘Holier-than-thou’ sense in his writing.
Let’s get some facts out in the open. Even better, I am ready to argue with anybody and everybody who thinks otherwise:
1. The Non-Violence and Non-Cooperation principles were THE reason why British quit India. You could not have fought Britishers out of India. C’mon, there were quite some fights against the Britishers. 1857 mutiny to quote one.
I was ROFL when I read – “Atlee had expressed fears regarding the rage of Subhash Chandra Bose’s Indian National Army as a reason for its decision to give us independence”. CRAP.! Sorry, but I’ve tried to resist my self. But I can’t put my thoughts in fairer words. We are talking about the largest army at that time with superlatively huge number of warships and very importantly – a government. Not a group of mutiny commandoes. Puh-lease.!
2. Gandhiji and Nehru were neither “scared by Bose’s guts” nor were they felt insecure. They did not go – how do I put it – campaigning against people joining INA. They said that his intentions were correct but means are not. C’mon yaar. Gandhiji was, and would remain, GREAT man. Even British people give him proper respect inspite of him wearing a, um, two-piece to a parliamentary gathering. I mean, How many of you can do that?
It is easier to talk about a path. Lo-oh-ho-t difficult walking that.! Gandhiji did that. Till his demise. Yeah, The very last exhale of breath. And I’d not stand any crappy guy maligning ‘The father of nation’ with half-baked nonsense fuelled by a sense of helplessness against a totally different (Low is the correct word, I guess) grade of politicians.
His greatness was not in kicking the be-Jesus out of any British sipoyee seen alone in a deserted street in the death of night. He stood his ground, faced British Regime heads-on on broad day light.! WITH NON-VOILENCE. No small deed.!
Subhash Chandra Bose is a distinctly superior man, a great in himself, with a totally different caliber. He’d have made an Ideal defense minister with aggression and innovation. The ability to boost the confidence of troops, to lead from the front – till the end.! Wohow.! GREAT. But to lead a nation to prosperity, you do not need that kind of aggression.
You have every right (and I’d agree you’re correct) to accuse the current UPA government for being lame and without spine. They had done li’ll and are doing even worse post the attacks. I am also overwhelmed with emotion by the attacks and the sense of my helplessness. But I am not up against the heroes – aka the then Congress - who fought a different kind of war at a different time with a different weapon. The WMD used then was Public outburst – a singular, collective outburst – which could not have been achieved any other means other than Non-violence. Repeat, NO OTHER. And that’s why British quit. Period.! Any body saying otherwise has flunked his History exam and is trying to prove that his history teacher is to blame for his failure.
I mean weapons kill people not a regime. Na, ah.!
Get a Perspective, guys. Don’t take nonsense.
S******
Posted: 12/4/2008 4:32 PM by VPV
The main problem with this article is that it doesn't give any concrete solutions. The only solution mentioned in the concluding paragraph is impractical. Also, it would be wrong to call the day as a "national humiliation day", because very ironically, the terrorists seem to have (I desperately hope so) succeeded in doing what politicians couldn't do for the past sixty years: Uniting the masses. Anger and frustration on the streets is so palpable; you can almost touch it. Not that I am condoning the terrorists' act but this is the silver lining on an otherwise extremely dark cloud.
Regards,
V*****
Posted: 12/4/2008 5:53 PM by Me
I absolutely agree with the post's title:
"Its was a National Humiliation By Arvind Lavakare"
For the record, Arvind Lavakare is an extremist, a mouth-piece for BJP and RSS. Just look at his articles at rediff:
www.rediff.com/news/arvind.html
Of course, rediff uses him a lot because of his sensational exremist style which brings a lot of readers.
Thanks SNSI for doing an excellent job in clearing out the facts that was mixed with the fiction.
Lavakare was just interested in raising anti-Muslim & anti-Congress sentiment as in all his previous articles.
As for POTA, unless we have a good system with clean people in charge, POTA will only be misused against the common man to suppress any form of justice! We already know about the reality of fake encouters as it is! We need to clean up our system before bringing in harsh laws...
Sadly, this is exactly the reason why India is unable to make the neccessary strides into the future. Some deluded extremists (from all sides) always divert our attention from positive progress and splits us up...
By the way, I think it was also a shameful thing to paste such an article here. Probably the person who posted read the first few lines and thought it was ok...
Surprising how the person who posted this on our intranet was so gullible. Do ppl really believe anything they read... don't they have their own opinion or is it only if you're one of those who have a vacuum in your belfry?
Thankfully I was proven wrong about the majority... here's the responses to that post. It was removed after my post at the end made it evident that this article was not suitable to be on the boards...
Posted: 12/4/2008 10:56 AM by SHK
some startling and humiliating facts here ...
one more reason to introspect and ACT !!!
Posted: 12/4/2008 1:37 PM by KS
Strange how this article focused solely on Islamic terror while forgetting to list the other terror groups across our country like the Maoists and the Naxals and the tacit support to the LTTE down south. Or the fact that none of the ringleaders of the Mumbai and Gujarat riots were ever convicted. We are indeed confused about what is a terrorist act and what isn't.
But we can't blame Pakistan or any other external agency for any of the above, so who cares, right?
And yes, POTA worked well with the Parliament attacks. Three people were convicted and sentenced to death in the POTA trial. Two of those convictions were overturned by a higher court. But then, since 'guilt beyond reasonable doubt' isn't really a concern, who cares?
Besides why waste time on due process when you can always resolve things with an encounter or two?
I agree that there needs to be a significant improvement in the numbers and infrastructure available to our law enforcement agencies. Perhaps, with the establishment of this proposed federal agency, we may see things change.
Posted: 12/4/2008 2:32 PM by AP
Well, there are a lot of self styled experts putting forward their views these days. And especially, during such troubled times, there are more takers for Gandhi bashing. After all, we have always got the habit of holding someone else responsible for our problems.
I'm not an expert and don't not have any solution to propose....may be we need to fight against terrorists in their territory, or may be we need to go for a decisive war against Pakistan...if so, then do it after evaluating all options! But why dragging Gandhi....and always!
Remember, whoever lashes out heavily against Gandhi, that he had got the b***s to go and confront the enemy right in front of him...looking straight into his eyes!
Posted: 12/4/2008 3:14 PM by SNSI
This article is preposterous. With all due respect, this Arvind guy has made a cocktail of facts, literally, and what do you get in the end, a recipe which is sweet, bitter, sour and peppery – a classic Ugadi Pachchadi.
I mean, mix Terrorism, Religion, Politics, Hatred based on Community or Society, sprinkle a li’ll bit of Reservations, flame it by accusing some distinguished persons.. really stupid and non-sense names( for the want of better term).. and what you have? An Instant pot-boiler – cooler than all those ‘Kk’ serials and Ramu’s movies cumulated together.. Well, No arguing there.. You must accept I am correct.
What prompted me write this post is the ‘Holier-than-thou’ sense in his writing.
Let’s get some facts out in the open. Even better, I am ready to argue with anybody and everybody who thinks otherwise:
1. The Non-Violence and Non-Cooperation principles were THE reason why British quit India. You could not have fought Britishers out of India. C’mon, there were quite some fights against the Britishers. 1857 mutiny to quote one.
I was ROFL when I read – “Atlee had expressed fears regarding the rage of Subhash Chandra Bose’s Indian National Army as a reason for its decision to give us independence”. CRAP.! Sorry, but I’ve tried to resist my self. But I can’t put my thoughts in fairer words. We are talking about the largest army at that time with superlatively huge number of warships and very importantly – a government. Not a group of mutiny commandoes. Puh-lease.!
2. Gandhiji and Nehru were neither “scared by Bose’s guts” nor were they felt insecure. They did not go – how do I put it – campaigning against people joining INA. They said that his intentions were correct but means are not. C’mon yaar. Gandhiji was, and would remain, GREAT man. Even British people give him proper respect inspite of him wearing a, um, two-piece to a parliamentary gathering. I mean, How many of you can do that?
It is easier to talk about a path. Lo-oh-ho-t difficult walking that.! Gandhiji did that. Till his demise. Yeah, The very last exhale of breath. And I’d not stand any crappy guy maligning ‘The father of nation’ with half-baked nonsense fuelled by a sense of helplessness against a totally different (Low is the correct word, I guess) grade of politicians.
His greatness was not in kicking the be-Jesus out of any British sipoyee seen alone in a deserted street in the death of night. He stood his ground, faced British Regime heads-on on broad day light.! WITH NON-VOILENCE. No small deed.!
Subhash Chandra Bose is a distinctly superior man, a great in himself, with a totally different caliber. He’d have made an Ideal defense minister with aggression and innovation. The ability to boost the confidence of troops, to lead from the front – till the end.! Wohow.! GREAT. But to lead a nation to prosperity, you do not need that kind of aggression.
You have every right (and I’d agree you’re correct) to accuse the current UPA government for being lame and without spine. They had done li’ll and are doing even worse post the attacks. I am also overwhelmed with emotion by the attacks and the sense of my helplessness. But I am not up against the heroes – aka the then Congress - who fought a different kind of war at a different time with a different weapon. The WMD used then was Public outburst – a singular, collective outburst – which could not have been achieved any other means other than Non-violence. Repeat, NO OTHER. And that’s why British quit. Period.! Any body saying otherwise has flunked his History exam and is trying to prove that his history teacher is to blame for his failure.
I mean weapons kill people not a regime. Na, ah.!
Get a Perspective, guys. Don’t take nonsense.
S******
Posted: 12/4/2008 4:32 PM by VPV
The main problem with this article is that it doesn't give any concrete solutions. The only solution mentioned in the concluding paragraph is impractical. Also, it would be wrong to call the day as a "national humiliation day", because very ironically, the terrorists seem to have (I desperately hope so) succeeded in doing what politicians couldn't do for the past sixty years: Uniting the masses. Anger and frustration on the streets is so palpable; you can almost touch it. Not that I am condoning the terrorists' act but this is the silver lining on an otherwise extremely dark cloud.
Regards,
V*****
Posted: 12/4/2008 5:53 PM by Me
I absolutely agree with the post's title:
"Its was a National Humiliation By Arvind Lavakare"
For the record, Arvind Lavakare is an extremist, a mouth-piece for BJP and RSS. Just look at his articles at rediff:
www.rediff.com/news/arvind.html
Of course, rediff uses him a lot because of his sensational exremist style which brings a lot of readers.
Thanks SNSI for doing an excellent job in clearing out the facts that was mixed with the fiction.
Lavakare was just interested in raising anti-Muslim & anti-Congress sentiment as in all his previous articles.
As for POTA, unless we have a good system with clean people in charge, POTA will only be misused against the common man to suppress any form of justice! We already know about the reality of fake encouters as it is! We need to clean up our system before bringing in harsh laws...
Sadly, this is exactly the reason why India is unable to make the neccessary strides into the future. Some deluded extremists (from all sides) always divert our attention from positive progress and splits us up...
By the way, I think it was also a shameful thing to paste such an article here. Probably the person who posted read the first few lines and thought it was ok...